The Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency

[1911A1Bob]

Well folks, everytime I go into my local Wal Mart it's a crap-shoot as far as ammo goes--will they have what I want? For the last 6 months or so, however, they have kept .40 S&W ammo in-stock. Federal and Winchester, but I haven't really taken note of bullet weights. Now, I keep wondering if maybe I should take advantage of this sort of situation and jump on the "mid caliber" bandwagon. I've already decided against a Glock. I know they're as good as it gets, uber-reliable, etc. They don't fit my hand right and seem to point high for me.

I've been eyeballing two guns, a S&W M&P .40 and a Springfield Armory XDm in .40...

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=27806&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15711&isFirearm=Y

http://www.the-m-factor.com/

The S&W is made in the US, the XDm in Croatia. The XDm has a higher capacity though. They both have the changeable backstraps to custom fit your hand. I know the old XD's felt great in the hand, but I haven't handled the S&W yet. I'm going to look if I get time this weekend and sort of try them out for size. I'll have to swap for whichever I want, IF I decide to get one. Again, this may just be my way of taking advantage of the current ammo situation. Decisions, decisions....
_________________

[jimbobborg]

I've heard a lot of good stuff on both guns. It's just personal preference between the two. I'm looking for a 40, I wish I had snagged some of the CHP 4006s that went on the market earlier this year.

Jim

[Bob]

I say go for it.
Sorry to hear that Glocks don't work for you.
10mm Kurzschluss for the win
_________________
Palmettoshootersforum.com

[westsidewolf]

Heres the deal. How much do you shoot? I would not reccomend .40 for anyone but an avid shooter. By avid shooter I mean that you shoot at least once a month, preferably more. Forty S&W was developed to have the "stopping power" (myth) of a 45 but the lighter recoil than a 9mm. In my opinion it has neither but thats not the question here, lets deal with facts. .40 has more felt recoil than a 45 ACP and if you are not shooting often you will lose your proficiency with it sooner than 9 milly or a 45 because of that. You may be able to find ammo easier for a 40 but you will have to shoot more often with it to keep up your skills, that will translate into more cash spent. If you read this and say "I gotta shoot more, cool" then you know which path you are headed down. If you say "I gotta spend more, not cool" likewise but opposite. Dig?

If you decide to do it then, of course, fire both pistols and see what you like best. The Smith has a very ergonomic grip and is a great, American made, pistol for a reasonable price. The XD is also a good gun with a high capacity but, as you said, its Croatioan made. Do they make the XDM in forty? The M has a match grade barrrel and a more adjustable grip for ergonomics but then you run into more cash spent. Couple that with the extra ammo and range costs before you decide on it.

Bottom line, homework.
_________________
It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

[S.T.A.R.S. Armourer]

Both of em have fantastic reputations and both of em were great to shoot in my book. Can't speak for owning them.

Sorry to say but I don't care for that round at all either, but to each their own. Wolf nailed it. I don't think it brings anything to the table, personally.


Glocks point high for everybody I think Just one of those things. The answer is just to shoot em, shoot em, shoot em some more. They're right as rain after that.
_________________
And it's on through the night
and I know deep inside
that something evil stands in the way
Sing it all through the night
Through these hot summer streets
And take no for an answer?
no I'll never walk away

[Bob]

Ya know recoil is a subjective thing.
I don't really notice it much anymore.
Then again I may have been shooting for more years than some of you have been alive.

Glocks point high?
News to me, I have 5 of them that shoot where I point them.
Then again I was the hand model for the 20 and 21, they fit me perfectly.
Just kidding but they do fit like they were made expressly for me.

Back to the 40, one thing I have noticed is they seem louder than you would expect.
I guess it is because they are a high pressure round as apposed to 45 acp being a low pressure round.

Practice is important whether you are shooting a 10mm Glock or a 22lr Ruger Mark III.
_________________
Palmettoshootersforum.com

[S.T.A.R.S. Armourer]

Thats what it is. More gas pushin somethin out a blocked tube faster and stronger makes a bigger boom.

I can notice the 40 cal has more snap to it. Not prohibitive, but if someone isn't the frequent pistol shooter Bob is, I think what WSW said applies pretty well.

Its by no means uncontrollable, but it will be a factor that deserves consideration.
_________________
And it's on through the night
and I know deep inside
that something evil stands in the way
Sing it all through the night
Through these hot summer streets
And take no for an answer?
no I'll never walk away

[Bob]

The pressure is why 45 is such a dream to reload as well.
The cases last practically forever.

The one problem with reloading 45acp is 45 GAP.
I hate that shit, the cases pollute the supply of 45acp.
I have to be constantly vigilant and cull out the gap cases.

Both of my 40's are smaller guns, a G23 and a G27,
The 27 is a meat hammer!

My original Glock was the 23.
I came into a bit of money and wanted a new pistol but did not know what I wanted.
I was a tried and true 1911 guy.
I was a real fan boy.
I didn't have enough money to buy a new 1911 and trick it out but I could buy a Glock and shut my friend up as I would first hand experience with a Glock.
Oh I had shot them before but there is a difference in taking a few shots and doing the level of practice one does with a carry piece.

Imagine if you will my surprise when I liked the damn thing.
I didn't want to like it.
I was a 1911 guy.
But it never malfunctioned and it hit what I pointed it at.
I felt none of the 40 cal flip I had read so much about and the recoil was not bad, in fact the range officer came out and a couple of times and asked me to slow down.
They don't allow rapid fire there but are somewhat more tolerant of the real shooters.
As y'all know when you practice regularly you can work up to a pace that puts all your shots in the scoring rings but would cause a thug or newb to put most of his shots through the ceiling.

I wanted a small pistol in a real caliber.
I bought a Kel-Tech P-11.
Not a bad gun, small light, and 9mm.
Then one day I compared it to a friends G-27 and discovered they were about the same size.
After slapping myself in the forehead I started searching for a deal on a 27,

My reasoning was that if I was going to get a baby Glock I would get a 40 cal that way I could use a conversion barrel and shoot 9mm if I so desired.
One of these days I may get around to getting a conversion barrel.

This has been my paltry few experiences with 40 cal.
I don't pass judgment on the round other than to say it is not this old mans primary caliber.

Now that said I am going to tell you a secret.
This is the secret of how to get past recoil.
It is called Model 29 with a 4" barrel.
Shoot a thousand or so rounds through it and you will either develop terminal flinchitis or you will stop caring about recoil.
_________________
Palmettoshootersforum.com

[Ihopdemon]

Hey Bob, what's 45 GAP?
_________________
The light at the end of the tunnel is just my muzzleflash.

[S.T.A.R.S. Armourer]

It's a cartridge...45 GLock Automatic Pistol. Basically a way to get a .45 cal bullet moving almost as fast as an ACP can push one, but shorter in overall length so it fits in a Glock skinnygrip model pistol.
_________________
And it's on through the night
and I know deep inside
that something evil stands in the way
Sing it all through the night
Through these hot summer streets
And take no for an answer?
no I'll never walk away

[Bob]

What I keep hearing is they are a solution to a non existent problem.
Developed for men with girly hands and women.

I also hate those damn 45acp cases with small pistol primers, they are even harder to cull out.
Just to refresh your memory these are the "non-toxic" cases produced by Federal and possibly some of the others by now.
They do not have lead styphnate in the primer material.

If someone were to give me a quantity of this I would not bother picking up the cases.
I would tell the range vultures they could have them, all the while chuckling to myself...
_________________
Palmettoshootersforum.com

[S.T.A.R.S. Armourer]

They get into EVERY bag of 45 ACP range brass you can buy.

One other thing about the .45 GAP...The question it answered was how to make money. Controversy stirs up sales. No better way to run controversy than to shoot hard at 45 ACP, 30-06 or 223. It is gonna turn fucking product. Not always for the best but it works.
_________________
And it's on through the night
and I know deep inside
that something evil stands in the way
Sing it all through the night
Through these hot summer streets
And take no for an answer?
no I'll never walk away

[jimbobborg]

I'm going to have to chime in again. I've shot 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 10mm (full power). 9mm recoil is nominal, the 40 is a little snappier. The 45 is heavier, and the 10 is controllable in the right pistol. I'm getting a 40 at some point since I have an extra set of 10mm dies. I need one for some shooting comps that I'm really getting into. The whole reason that I own any .223s is for competition. Both are cheap to run, and during the Great Ammo Rush of 2009 the only ammo that I could find in quantity was 40 S&W.

Jim

[S.T.A.R.S. Armourer]

I find it really depends on the gun when ya come to the 45 ACP. Head to head on a big steel framed 9mm, sure its heavier. But compared to the polymer framed and light 9mms I find the 1911A1 to be downright gentle. Even if it does kick harder, which I ain't convinced on (bigger ball, lower pressure tho) ol' slabsides really takes the bite outta that round's kick. Big heavy metal.

I find it much smoother to shoot.

Ergonomics is learned. No matter how a hand grips a pistol, if you shoot as much as you should to be a legitimate GOOD shot, you can overcome it. It's an inhibitor to initial success for sure, and shooting something that doesn't fit your hand well doesn't make for fun at the range, but you're conditioning your body to perform a certain task. Do it enough and it will.

Just my hypothesis but shooting different pistols with different grip orientations is just as labor intensive as shooting a pistol that could fit your hand better in the first place. Unless you own two pistols with near identical grip angles and bore axis.

Bottom line shoot the gun.
_________________
And it's on through the night
and I know deep inside
that something evil stands in the way
Sing it all through the night
Through these hot summer streets
And take no for an answer?
no I'll never walk away

[Bob]

The two most painful pistol I have shot are the Kel-Tech P-11 (9mm) and the P3AT (380).

They absolutely do not fit my hand.
_________________
Palmettoshootersforum.com